Video playback issues

[forrrge]

Hi, for info the videos I was using as an example were taken directly from youtube and saved using a program called Free Video Converter http://www.freemake.com/free_video_converter/ therefore they were not being encoded then re-encoded etc. They were perfectly viewable on the PC lip synced etc. but then took that same file copied to the excel and the audio was out of sync.

Good to see that the guys or on the case though

[Scrollnovice2]

Hi everyone. Does this problem exist on other tablets ( I am new to this technology) What does Encoded to death mean??? I have converted some DVDs myself and all suffer this problem along with the i player.How or where do you get "good" codecs !!! Is this something that actually exist in the real world? or are all comercially produced movies encoded? Your comments would be appreciated as dont really understand.

[Astro]

It's good to know that Paul Evison is on the case with the lip syncing issue.

I too am having the same issues as everyone else with iPlayer.

I think that the problem is wider than with just 'encoded to death' videos.

I don't know much about video codecs but, as a test, I have recorded some BBC HD output in Windows 7 Media Centre (.wtv format) and then used VideoReDo to encode it to the following formats: H.264 (mkv), H.264 (mp4), H.264 (wmv), MPeg2 (mpg), MPeg4 (mp4) and MPeg2 Program Stream (mpg). All of the formats seem to play on the Excel, (some better than others), but all suffer from the lip sync problem.

Hopefully, Paul and the SO people come up with a fix for this.

Excel

[davesch]

It's good to know that Paul Evison is on the case with the lip syncing issue.

I too am having the same issues as everyone else with iPlayer.

I think that the problem is wider than with just 'encoded to death' videos.

I don't know much about video codecs but, as a test, I have recorded some BBC HD output in Windows 7 Media Centre (.wtv format) and then used VideoReDo to encode it to the following formats: H.264 (mkv), H.264 (mp4), H.264 (wmv), MPeg2 (mpg), MPeg4 (mp4) and MPeg2 Program Stream (mpg). All of the formats seem to play on the Excel, (some better than others), but all suffer from the lip sync problem.

Hopefully, Paul and the SO people come up with a fix for this.

Excel

I really am not convinced about this "encloded to death" issue. I've converted files direct from DVD and from .ts files from my Freesat box using various programs and formats. All play fine on other devices, but not the Excel

[StorageOptions]

Hi Gents (and Ladies?),

Firstly, Charlie, don't feel bad! I'm really glad you took the time to email me and let me know about this thread - you didn't have to do it.

Secondly, an update on this issue.

iPlayer
We haven't fixed it yet, but it is increasingly looking like a iPlayer / Flash issue not a hardware problem. Some searching has revealed that it has occurred on other devices and indeed even the BBC have acknowledged it themselves on other Android versions / devices.
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/h ... audio_sync
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/h ... nc_desktop

I realise these FAQs won't fix the issue, but they do point to a wider problem with the iPlayer service when running on Android. We've also tried using it on an Android phone and we get the same issue. (My iPhone doesn't have it unfortunately! I was secretly hoping that it did).

We continue to look at this and will update again when we have something for you.

With regard to playing videos on the device itself and an better explanation of "encoding to death":

I am advised that it’s illegal to convert DVDs so offering any advice on this directly isn’t something I’m prepared to do. Sorry but this isn't somewhere I can go.

On the technical issue I can say this. The software used to encode and video and audio (and potentially subtitle) streams must be standards compliant. Just because it plays on your PC or another device doesn’t necessarily infer that the software used was standards compliant. What we can say is that the Scroll definitely is compliant in this respect, because we’ve tested a great many compliant videos. It’s also worth noting that the file type e.g. MP4 is just a container for the various streams, the codec and all the other details contained within the container must also be compliant to the MP4 standard for it to be standard video file.

For example it’s technical possible for an MP4 “container” to be encoded with a “Real” codec although this isn’t a standards compliant method. It’s perfectly possible for your PC or another device to play this MP4 in this case because it is able to handle all types of content much better than the Scroll (there’s software on the PC to handle this for you, the Scroll is using it’s hardware).

In summary a video may look like another video file, but it’s far more complicated than that in reality!

If you are creating your own video files you must be sure that the software you are using is obeying the standards of the container you are converting to, for it to work on the Scroll. Perhaps a bit research into the software you are using might help?

If anyone has a standards compliant video which is having issues on the Scroll, then please email a copy of it to me directly so we can test it ourselves. As yet we haven't seen an issue.

Thanks again for your patience.

Paul
paul.evison@storageoptions.com

[Astro]

Dear Paul,

Thanks for your post and explanation.

I'm not really sure how to tell if I'm encoding video in a 'standards compliant' format... would it be possible for you to offer some guidance on the most appropriate format to use and, perhaps, a step by step 'how to', including the software and settings you would use? If the software used is available for free, so much the better!

Also, would it be possible for SO to create a short piece of 'Standards Compliant' video that we can download to the Excel to demonstrate how well it works with properly encoded video?

Hopefully, then, we can start to understand how to get the best out of video on the Excel.

Overall, the Excel is a great piece of equipment and I'm delighted to have purchased one... I guess it's only to be expected that there will be a few teething problems along the way, like the 'I've got the wrong product' issue, but I'm sure, with your help, we'll get them resolved.

Thanks for your support.

Excel

[forrrge]

From Paul's post it must be MP4 compiant, this is what I've dug up on the net.

1.What is MP4?

MP4 is a new container format, a container format allows you to combine different multimedia streams into one single file. Multimedia containers are for example the well known AVI, MPEG , Matroska, OGM. MP4 is the global file extension for the official container format defined in the MPEG-4 standard. MP4 is streamable and supports all kinds of multimedia content, multiple audio-, video-, subtitlestreams, pictures, variable-framerates, -bitrates, -samplerates...) and advanced content like 2D and 3D animated graphics, user interactivity, DVD-like menus.
MP4 is a streamable format

2. What multimedia formats to use to create MP4 compliant files?

To create MP4 compliant files use audio/video formats covered by the MPEG-4 Standard:

Use MP4 compliant video formats: MPEG-4 (XviD, DivX5, 3ivx, ffmpeg/ffvfw, NeroDigital, H.264/AVC), MPEG-2, MPEG-1, ... Don't use MS MPEG-4, MPEG-4 DivX3, WM9 (Windows Media 9), RV9 (Real Video 9)...

Use MP4 compliant audio formats: MP3, AAC, MP2, MP1, TwinVQ, ... Don't use OGG Vorbis, Voxware Metasound, ...

Use MP4 compliant picture formats: JPEG, PNG

[jimbo]

As a newbie here, just a vote of thanks to Paul/Storage Options. It’s very encouraging to see that you are looking at the problem actively and are posting here.
I'm seriously pleased with my new toy. Given its price, it has massively surpassed my expectations. I do hope you can get this issue sorted, as it’s the only area I have qualify my recommendation to my mates to go and buy one. Even so one or two of them are getting bored listening to me about how much I like it...

[Astro]

Dear Forrrge,

Thanks for the info, very useful

I'm not sure... is Paul saying that the video must be MP4 compliant? I thought that the Excel could handle a variety of formats e.g. Full 1080p MPEG2, MPEG4, AVS, H.264, WMV, AVI, MP4, RMVB, FLV, MKV

Could it be that the Excel can handle a variety fo formats, but whichever is used, the encoding must be standards compliant?

Excel

[moaxial]

Thanks Paul,

I totally accept the Iplayer app is rubbish, and quite a few reviews on the Market will back that up. Its does however play in sync on both the Android phones in the house, although the frame rate and quality is rubbish.

I also accept that perhaps its not your responsiblity to get third party apps like IPlayer to work on the Excel. I would use Flash in the browser instead but it has the same issue. When iPlayer, Flash, a number of different video applications and formats all exhibit the SAME problem on this device you have to at least raise an eyebrow.

I think its understandable for you to say we only support "standards complaint" video, but in my experience of the Excel what you're saying is we only support a very narrow set videos that you're likely to want to watch in the real world (approx. 3/12 that I tested). I know that iPhones/iPad MAKE you convert everything into certain MP4/MKV format via iTunes to work on their devices, but I think one of the great things about Android is that you DON'T have to do that. Unless you want to make "eTunes" to automatically recode our videos to the correct format when transferring

Yes, PC's have software decoding but the Android video players I use support not only the Excel hardware decoding but their own software decoding, honestly it makes only a little difference, its STILL out of sync. Using the software decoding on the Excel does not help that the sync issue much.

I understand the concept of container files and multiple codecs/formats within them. Compliant or otherwise, that is the reality of most videos you will find out there. It doesn't seem to bother either of my Android phones which I am sure also have hardware decoding, and they are NOT dual core, latest and greatest devices.

I suppose I feel disappointed that you are saying, in reality, about only a quarter of your videos will work properly on the Excel unless you recode them. Thats without getting into the same sync issues on flash video playback. What are these other devices doing to support more codecs and formats, and improve performance? Is this something you can look into for the Excel or is it just outside the remit of Storage Options?